Nibu:
Communism is a great idea in theory, but not even having doctors payed the same as fast food employees, but no motivation to invent new things. Or even do your job right. I kno if it were a communist country i'd show up to work late and sleep the whole time. Or not even show up. Heh, i'm really lazy and I only have motivation when I see my own personal gain. It sounds heartless, but i'm just saying what most people think.
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DeutschGarten:
Yes. The biggest problem with Socialism is the lack of motivatio because people get almost everything paid for by the government and everyone is paid the same.
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ILMT:
u c if there was a way to provide incentives fo the the people while still maintaining a communist state then it would be ideal, but the problem is that that government would contridict itself
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Debro:
"but no motivation to invent new things"
Capitalism uses the same system -which conserves the poverty of the majority- for more than 200 years now.
And - just for example - the top fighters of the USAAF operating on the same principle as the WWII german fighter Me-262.
We're still using oil based fuel to feed our cars, just to destroy the environment.Why?The only winner is the upper 1 percent. Inventions,yes.
" but i'm just saying what most people think." - Most people haven't got internet connection, proper education to express themselfes. Check the statistics.
"the lack of motivatio" The employer pay 160$ for a month, daily 12 hours of work, you must take it, cuz there is no alternative in the region, and you must pay the bills, for food, your education of your child...Where is the motivation?
ILMT - Yes.The "realized" socialistic states of the past based on Stalin's ideas, the original theories of Marx were entirely ignored.
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Nibu:
"Capitalism uses the same system -which conserves the poverty of the majority- for more than 200 years now.
And - just for example - the top fighters of the USAAF operating on the same principle as the WWII german fighter Me-262.
We're still using oil based fuel to feed our cars, just to destroy the environment. Why? The only winner is the upper 1 percent. Inventions, yes. "
I don't see how that proves their is motivation to invent new things in a communist nation. And in Capitalism you can move fail or succeed. My dad was dirt poor and had alcoholics for parents, but he owns his own company now and we're in the upper middle class now. Poor people can move up in the world, not all blacks are poor, and that's how they started off after slavery.
"Most people haven't got internet connection, proper education to express themselfes. Check the statistics."
I know that, but most people won't do things unless they see personal gain. Do you think people do things for free or just for society? People are greedy, that's how people are.
"No alternative in the region"
Yea, you get that money no matter what in a communist region. You can't get fired. In a communist nation their is no unemployment. Why work hard if you always get paid?
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Debro:
Just prove that capitalism is not an invention-factory, as you would like to see it. If you are lookin' fo answers, read the works of Marx - I'm just a lazy sociology student.
Your father were in the right place at the right time. He had a chance to do something. Milliards doesn't.
Black people?Think about Africa,alright?And catch some statistics about the distribution of the wealth regarding races for the US.
"People are greedy, that's how people are." - It's a sad experience of yours...Not for free, they wopuld do it for themselfes - remember, in an ideal socialism, all needs are satisfactioned, so there is no reason to be greedy.
"Yea, you get that money no m..." The example were picked from a capitalist system, so I don't see your point.
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Nibu:
"The example were picked from a capitalist system, so I don't see your point."
W/e, but what I said still holds true about communist nations, You can't get fired. In a communist nation their is no unemployment. Why work hard if you always get paid?
Maybe capitalism isn't an "invention-factory" but in a communist nation their isn't a need to go out and try to invent something b/c no matter what you do you can't get ahead.
"right place at the right time"
People might be at a disadvantage, but you can move up if you try. "statistics about the distribution of the wealth regarding races for the US" I know it isn't spread out evenly, but it is possible for anyone to up.
If communism works, name one successful communist nation. China calls it's self communist, but they have been moving more and more to a free market. It's a great idea, but it will never work. Maybe in the far far future when robots do all the jobs, but until then it's just a failed market system.
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Debro:
"Why work hard if you always get paid?" You can only see economical benefits. There are others. You're the child of the upper-middle class, so you don't see any reason for a change..Read Jack London's "The Iron Heel" - In London's opinion, the middle classes will crumble in a slow process..quite interesting.
"communist nation their isn't a need to go out and try" - Lenin and his comrades converted the destroyed Russia into a superpower - which later stopped the nazism. The state were threatened by externatl and internal elements, there weren't education, social system, industrial base nor infrastructure. About 10 years, and brand new socialistic state appeared. The motivation? They wanted to build their future - in the name of justice, and peace.
"People might be at a disadvantage" - give me a confession, the blacks were desperately bad example.
No, it's NOT possible for everyone. We just say it, to have personal calmness. Why lives milliards in abject poverty, when it's so simple to get rich?! Then you consider all people in africa as stupid niemand - cuz they haven't got money?
" name one successful communist" - i must repeat myself.
ILMT - Yes.The "realized" socialistic states of the past based on Stalin's ideas, the original theories of Marx were entirely ignored.
Note that Castro still stands - despite US efforts to drown him economically. It's hard to be successful, if the rest of the world wants to eliminate you, just cuz your pilicies are different.
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Nibu:
You think people are good at heart and society messes that up, but you got it backwards. I’m not saying people are bad, but their naturally lazy and greedy. The best way to get anyone to do anything is to offer money. The middle class will never disappear; people go up and down in the world.
And when I said "it is possible for anyone to up" I was talking about in the US, not people in Africa or where ever else. I’m not saying it’s easy, it’s hard as hell for some, but possible for all.
I hardly think Lenin was successful; Russia was still in poverty and people starving, poor working conditions. And had a lower standard of living than almost all capitalist nations at that time. As for Cuba, of course people hate Castro, he’s a dictator that gives very limited freedom to his people.
Do you really believe that everyone in the world is stupid for not trying communism, do you really think you and Castro know better than all the governments?
And as I’ve said before, Why work hard if you always get paid? Not everyone in the nation is gonna be these “others” that will work hard for money they get no matter what.
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Debro:
I'm speaking about facts,Nibu - the middle classes are gettin' smaller&smaller worldwide;again:check the statistics. Most people lives outside the US - this is a fact again(you know, right place,right time). Poverty is a serious proplem in the US too-fact(statistics!).
Lenin was successful-fact. Check the conditions before& after Lenin in Russia.
Castro's still better than US-backed Batista were.Communism can only work worldwide.
No, Nibu, I'm not a genius-I just don't like blind hardliners.
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Nibu:
Ok, middle class might be getting smaller, and capitalism isn't perfect, but communism doesn't work. All communist nations fail. People don't work hard if they can't get a raise or move up. Worldwide communism would have the same issues. Most People don't wanna work hard. I know if I lived in a communist nations, i'd be lazy, and i'm not the only one who would be.
Take an economics class, and you'll understand better.
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Debro:
Again, "realized" socialistic states failed- stalinist interpretation of communism doesn't equals with marxism.
I'm learning sociology on a university, I will receive my master degree in two years. A lot of seminars about economics,you know. Also, I've learned economics in a collage for a year. I know what i'm speaking about.
Anyway, we should continue this argument on the forum, cuz we're "spamming" the main board.
No, it's NOT possible for everyone. We just say it, to have personal calmness. Why lives milliards in abject poverty, when it's so simple to get rich?! Then you consider all people in africa as stupid niemand - cuz they haven't got money? 
" -Archaix
Welfare Capitalism must be very good 
