Gay marriage

[Republicas Gloria]

Yay you agree!

[His Holiness King Of Penguins]

I don't want to be offensive but the church can't just stay in a world of its own 400 years back, it has to change with the people who go to it, the world is changing so the churches have to aswell, so i think that it should be legal.

[Republicas Gloria]

The church is its own private organization, they have the right to their veiw.

[teivostan]

I think it should be legalised, but as most people are saying you can't force a religion to accept gay marriages. I also think that they should be allowed to adopt. Not allowing them to adopt is just as bad as not allowing them to marry, they're not allowed to marry or have children because of their sexuality? That's very discriminative in my opinion.

[deutschgarten]

Dude, if I could vote I'd totally vote for Kucinich in the 2008 election. He's the only democrat with the balls to say he supports gay marriage fully.

[Archaix]

I get mixed up with all the Democrat runners. In fact, with all American politics. I think it stems from my inability to understand the political scale over there -for example, on Facebook, it asks this question when you create your profile:

"Are you...
-Very conservative
-Conservative
-Liberal
-Very Liberal
-Other"
Needless to say, I picked 'other'.

[Republicas Gloria]

I say this again, the Church or other religions are their own private buisness the government can't make them do shit without violating private buisnesses. The government should do something though that has the same legal right as marriage for the gays and lesbians and they should be allowed to adopt.

[deutschgarten]

Blah, civil unions still don't get the same benefits as marriage.

[Robespierre - P.R. of Debro]

archaix said:

I get mixed up with all the Democrat runners. In fact, with all American politics. I think it stems from my inability to understand the political scale over there -for example, on Facebook, it asks this question when you create your profile:

"Are you...
-Very conservative
-Conservative
-Liberal
-Very Liberal
-Other"
Needless to say, I picked 'other'.

This was my response to the 'Political standings" thread:

robespierre said:

it's nice, but where are the other elements of the matrix?I'm not (neo)liberal nor conservative.... and about the 'moderate' thing...for me, it means 'I don't care'...

And, this was Ashlandis' (first head senator and first member of the COIN, LOL)

ashlandis said:

I am mostly right wing reoublican. I oppose abortion, and gay marriage.
But i also share some liberal view, im pro-green etc...
So im a republican semi-tree hugger?
I put moderate...im in between.
Also i put moderate because i support Bush because he is our president an deserves respect...i dont agree with all his decisions, but sometimes war must happen. This is an "ethical" "cultural" war so we really can't win. But i do agree with Bush freeing Iraq from oppression. And if you don't (in my opinion) you have no heart for those under opression
Thanks
lol

Lol, the coin was really in the need of new members.

[deutschgarten]

lol. Us COIN members sure are silly.

[-Led Zeppelin-]

deutschgarten said:

Dude, if I could vote I'd totally vote for Kucinich in the 2008 election. He's the only democrat with the balls to say he supports gay marriage fully.

Agreed. Too bad he's a 2nd tier candidate, basically hated by the rest.

[plebian]

I think we should get rid of marriage as a state institution altogether. If churches want to perform special ceremonies, they certainly have the right, but much like baptisms, bar mitzvahs, etc., the secular state has no need or proper function in legitimating inherently religious functions. If, however, the government feels the need to monitor people living in cohabitational situations, they should issue civil unions to any two people who want to be so recognized. As long as actually detrimental practices, such as incest, are prohibited by statute, it shouldn't matter who has a civil union. This plan protects the state from committing discrimination, but it also protects religious institutions from having to subject their ceremonial actions to state approval, thus preserving the integrity of both church and state.

[Archaix]

Good answer, there.

[Kazzerland]

Agreed.

[Casinecro]

I disagree about what teivostan said before about gay couples not being aloud to adopt for several reasons:



1: The children would probably be embarrassed beyond compare
2:(in my opinion) It takes the combined efforts of a man and a woman to properly bring up a child. (there are plently of exceptions, and no offense to anybody brought up by a single parent)
3:What if the child grows up to be a homophobe? That would truelly cause mental scars and major rifts in the family.
4:What if the gayness of the parents (somehow) rubs off on the child? The gay pop. would soon double, thus causing chaos all round.

Although, there's nothing really wrong with gay marrige in itself, other than religiouslly.

[Kazzerland]

Personally, I think that not allowing gays to adopt children is completely against the very ideals and morals of America. While, I'm not gay, and never plan to be, I still think that they should have rights. And also Casinecro, MANY people have been brought up by just a father or just a mother and they turned out perfectly fine. As for the child becoming a homophobe, that is completely hypothetical and that could be applied to any child. Anyone could potentially become a homohobe, so that really can't be applied in this debate. And as for your final statement, that's just completely discriminatory. Your saying it would be a horrible thing for the child to become gay? That's essentially racism. What you're saying is that everyone has to be straight and Christian.... Am I right?

[owtopia]

Lol Casinecro is a Natzi! WWIII has begun! Pulls out nuke and blows up France. ;D

[Republicas Gloria]

Its spelled Nazi owtopia...



*starts praying for Casinecro to get a brain*

Dear Lord,
Give Casinecro a brain to stop being a retard drone of the extreme conservatives.
Amen.

*stops praying*


Casinecro... you sound like this Hungarian pedophile that I know, she says that the child would become gay. That is impossible without changing of the brain chemistry. You at birth, are naturally one or another or another (3 for straight, homo, and bi). If people keep on having the attitude gays are bad then of course they will be embarrased, our society needs to advance to a more accepting one. What does a man and a woman have that a man and a man or a woman and a woman don't have? Daddy can still teach his little girl to cook and Daddy #2 can still play baseball with her. Also, you would not be a homophobe if two of them were your parents! Now if this one kid thats a homo tries to rape you (this one kid did some... suggestive things, to me, I walked away, I'm straight, infact I didn't walk away but a friend of mine saw the actions and called the guy gay and began chasing him with his fencing sabre (I fence). Later the guy said that he liked boys, far later after that) then you might become a homophobe.

Casinecro just one question, do you watch Fox news by any chance.

*puts up a bet some random dude on the street that he does*

[Kardas]

owtopia said:

Pulls out nuke and blows up France.

5 years of learning French just gone down the drain

[Archaix]

I don't think Casi is a Nazi, he has several worthy points:

cacinecro said:

1: The children would probably be embarrassed beyond compare

That might be true. A child's parents are essentially the first bragging points when they enter school. Consider:
'my dad's better than your dad!'
'oh yeah, well I have two dads!'
'...?!'
They may very well get the shit kicked out of them by bullies.

cacinecro said:

2:(in my opinion) It takes the combined efforts of a man and a woman to properly bring up a child. (there are plently of exceptions, and no offense to anybody brought up by a single parent)

Again, a valid point. I believ that a child needs a father figure and a mother figure, and there can't be substitutions. Kids raised by a single parent are more likely to be wayward, for example. It also traumatizes them when parents split up. I'm not saying gays can't raise children -it's a difficult task that even heterosexuals can fail at- but I think children need actual mothers and fathers to be balanced.

cacinecro said:

3:What if the child grows up to be a homophobe? That would truelly cause mental scars and major rifts in the family.

This is where I disagree. You can't choose to be a homophobe; it's not like your sexual preference which you can't change. If anything children raised by homosexuals are more likely to understand and sympathize with gays.

cacinecro said:

4:What if the gayness of the parents (somehow) rubs off on the child? The gay pop. would soon double, thus causing chaos all round.

If you mean gay culture, then yes, that's quite likely. Children -generally- idolize their parents and seek to emulate them; it's all part of growing up and finding your own way. However, the gay people I know have been among the most considerate, intelligent and sensitive people I've ever known, so I don't think any of these points rubbing off onto children is a bad thing.
If you meant that it might actually make children gay, then I very much doubt that. Sexual preference is not a choice.

In the end, though, I still think gay adoption is a bad idea, mainly because the kids will get the piss taken out of them no end. It's kind of a big problem.