Constitution?

[Robespierre - P.R. of Debro]

You can say it's 'trivial', but when only 3 senator interested in the constitution, the whole thing is unnecessary.
And it's not democtratic, cuz the wish of 3 people affects the whole region.

[Neo Nibu]

It is democtratic, people choose to no get invold and that's part of Democracy. Look at the USA, about half of the people vote. It's a down side few people wish to get invold, but it is democtratic b/c everyone is even the same Opportunity.

As I said before, in time the region shall grow and become more active. It would hav been far easyer to hav simply started a new region and had a better portion of the nations active, but for this region most of the nations never joined a forum before and are happy just doing the daily issues.

-Nibu

[Robespierre - P.R. of Debro]

he-he. Look at the USA, look at the self-appointed policeman of the world. There are different interpretation of democracy...you know,there is two type of freedom. Most people in the USA has both of them, but somebody must pay the bill...Forget about it.

Allright then, but still suggested to include that point about senators.
(A. All Citizens of International Nations who join the forum are senators)

[moraviancounties]

admin said:

I see your point. I guess we can change it to have it 60% of senators who have vote support, but I think it to be trivial and most people would understand what it meant. But, i've seen hell over trivial things, best to change it at some point.

-Nibu

In most international organizations, as well as other organizations, the vote required for a majority is made up of POSSIBLE voters, and those that don't vote are considered abstentions, not counting toward the majority. Therefore, in order to pass something having to do with the region, 60% of the region should be required to approve it.

However, if you want to go with a US-like model of democracy, the senators should be chosen by the rest of the nations, not self-appointed, as this is an autocracy, not a democracy.

[Neo Nibu]

Well instead of limiting the number of senators, this allows all who wish to be a senator a senator. Like I said, at some point we can change it to hav it needed to be approved by 60% of voters.

-Nibu

[Neo Nibu]

I. Citizenship
A. To be a Citizen you must be any of the fallowing
-be located within International Nations
-doing spy work for International Nations
-deployed to other regions for military useage
B. Rights
-Free Speech
-Do not need to join the UN

II. Senate
A. All Citizens of International Nations who join the forum are senators
B. All laws must be passed by a 60% majority of senators who have voted
C. All voting polls are to be set up by Head Senator

III. Head Senator
A. Rights & Job Duties
-Head Senator has the right to set up all voting polls
-Head Senator has the right to be a MOD on the forum
-Head Senator has the right to appoint a Co-Head Senator
B. Voting Poll setup Requirements
-Law polls must have a minimum length of 3 days voting time
-Amendment polls must have a minimum length of 5 days voting time
-Election polls must have a minimum length of 5 days voting time
C. Terms & Requirements
-A new Head Senator is to be elected every month on the 21st
-A person cannot serve 3 terms in a row
-Must be in the senate to run
D. Co-Head Senator
-Is to be appointed by Head Senator
-Can be replaced at anytime at the Head Senator's wishes
-Can set up voting polls
-Acts as Head Senator in times of absense, inactiveness, if they leave International Nations, retirement, or impeachment

IV. Head Delegate
A. Rights & Job Duties
-Head Delegate is in charge of UN affairs
-Head Delegate has the right to be a MOD on the forum
-Head Delegate can veto any bill passed by senate that has less then 75% support of voters
-Head Delegate has the right to be UN Delegate
-Has the right to regional controls
B. Terms & requirements
-Must be in the UN
-Is to be elected in the tradtional endorsement fashion

V. Founder
A. Rights
-Be a MOD on the forum
-Can veto any bill passed by senate that has less then 75% support of voters
-Give MOD status to anyone on the forum
-Can give out Pardons

VI. Impeachment
A. If a crime is comitted by a government official an impeachment can take place at the wishes of the senate
B. Can be veto by founder if it has less than 75% support
C. Impeached at 65% approval rate of voters

VII. Crimes
A. Spying on International Nations for a forgen region
B. Multible accounts on the forum
C. punishment is to be given by High Judge, founder can reduce or pardon any sentence

VIII. High Judge
A. Is to hear out and pass judgment on all trails
B. Can deal punishment, founder can reduce or pardon any sentence
C. Is to be elected by Senate and serve until
inactiveness, Impeachment, retirement, or leaving International Nations
D. Founder is to act as High Judge in absense of an elected High Judge

IX. Head Of Defence
A. Rights & Duties
-Is in charge of the military and leading regional attacks
-Has right to be a MOD on the forum
-Has the right to setup or change military any military document
B. Terms & requirements
-Is to be elected by senate every other 21st
-Must be in the UN

X. Terms of office
A. Cannot hold multiple offices
-Can hold any number of sub offices
-Founder doesn't count as an office

XI. Sub Offices
A. Are to be appointed by founder or Head Delegate
B. Both are allowed to hold other offices
C. Serve until Inactiveness, retirement, or leaving International Nations
D. Have the right to be a mod of boards that relate to their office

XII. Amendments
A. Must be passed with 75% approval of senate who have voted


I believe this covers up everything people had trouble with. After the other verson is done being voted on, we can begin voting on this verson, or another verson with updates incase I missed something people want changed.

-Nibu

[deutschgarten]

In respones to robespier's party idea...

But won't that complicate things? I mean if one person from a party is active couldn't they just do whatever they want no matter what their other party members wishes are? Where's the checks and balances!?

[moraviancounties]

so if its approved by 60% of senators who voted, 1 vote would be enough?

[Neo Nibu]

Yes, their be some sort of dead line so it would give others time to vote... I guess i'm gonna have to spell out that part too...

I'll fix that... (I'll just modify post, so look it over) (I put it in the Head Senator section)

[Robespierre - P.R. of Debro]

Constitution


I. Citizenship
A. To be a Citizen you must be any of the following
-be located within International Nations
-doing spy work for International Nations
-deployed to other regions for military usage
B. Rights
-Free Speech
-Do not need to join the UN

II./A Parliement
A. All Citizens of International Nations can be the member of the parliement by joining the forum.
B. All laws must be passed by a 60% majority of voting senators
C. All citizen can found a party, and a forum moderator must supply the party with a separate board when the party's got more than 1 member.

II/B Parties
A. The party with the most members become the governing party. The prime minister must be the senator of this party and the parliement elect him.

III. Prime Minister
A. Rights & Job Duties
-PM has the right to set up all voting polls
-PM has the right to be a MOD on the forum
-PM has the right to appoint a Vice-PM from the opposition.
B. Terms & requirements
-A new PM is to be elected every month on the 21st
-A person cannot serve more than 3 terms in a row

C. Vice-PM
-Is to be appointed by PM
-Can be replaced at anytime at the PM's wishes
-Can set up voting polls
-Acts as PM in times of absense, inactiveness, if they leave International Nations, retirement, or impeachment

IV.UN Delegate
A. Rights & Job Duties
-Delegate is in charge of UN affairs - must set up a poll for every proposals and vote corresponding to the wish of the majority.
-Delegate has the right to be a MOD on the forum
-Delegate can veto any bill passed by senate that has less then 75% support
-Has the right to regional controls
B. Terms & requirements
-Must be in the UN
-Is to be elected in the tradtional endorsement fashion

V. Founder / President
A. Rights
-Be a MOD on the forum
-can veto any bill passed by senate that has less then 75% support
-Give MOD status to anyone on the forum
-Can give out Pardons

VI. Impeachment
A. If a crime is comitted by a government official an impeachment can take place at the wishes of the senate
B. Can be veto by founder if it has less than 75% support
C. Impeached at 65% approval rate

VII. Crimes
A. Spying on International Nations for a foreign region
B. Multible accounts on the forum
C. punishment is to be given by High Judge, founder can reduce or pardon any sentence

VIII. High Judge
A. Is to hear out and pass judgment on all trails
B. Can deal punishment, founder can reduce or pardon any sentence
C. Is to be elected by Senate and serve until
inactiveness, Impeachment, retirement, or leaving International Nations
D. Founder is to act as High Judge in absense of an elected High Judge
E. Must be independent.

IX. Head Of Defence
A. Rights & Duties
-Is in charge of the military and leading regional attacks
-Has right to be a MOD on the forum
-Has the right to setup or change military any military document
B. Terms & requirements
-Is to be elected by parliement every other 21st
-Must be in the UN

X. Terms of office
A. Cannot hold multiple offices
-Can hold any number of sub offices
-Founder doesn't count as an office

XI. Sub Offices
A. Are to be appointed by founder or Delegate
B. Both are allowed to hold other offices
C. Serve until Inactiveness, retirement, or leaving International Nations
D. Have the right to be a mod of boards that relate to their office

XII. Amendments
A. Must be passed with 75% approval of the parliement.

That's my conception.
Opinions?

[Robespierre - P.R. of Debro]

Moderate changes in th 2nd point,
Minor changes in 4,5,8th points.

[Neo Nibu]

Well other than minor name changes the big difference is the "parties" idea. You guys keep going on about the lack of nations on the forum, I don't think trying to set up parties is going to be likely or possible. The other thing about parties is, i've seen them destroy regions. One party leaves to make a new region. Their really isn't a need for parties, It's not like how we think our regional government should be run is really that different from person to person. It's not like in RL where their are issues of taxs, gay rights, and ect where you can form clear lines. You can't see "demicrat/republican" between how we think the regional gov is. The best you could do is something like the "pro single term people and the non pro single term people. I'm starting to ramble a bit, but I hope you get what i'm saying.

I'd really rather leave parties out of this, they only cause problems. I mean even on the US level of things, if their were no parties or one party, their wouldn't be people voting to support things just b/c their party does.

I'm not saying we shouldn't hav little groups within I.N. but making them a better role than minor role-play and poltical debate is a huge mistake in my eyes. One of my regions was killed because of parties. We had about 35 nations, 20 on the forum. 10 in one party and 3 in the other the rest not in one. Cleary you can see how the bigger party got up and left, and as you can guess I was in the smaller one. The region was cripled. 90% of the active members left to the new region, I was piss at them for what they did to their home region. They invited me to go, they even wanted to set up an alliance. They had nothing against the region they left. They just did it to hav their party control the founder and every aspect of the government. Ok, i'm rambling off again, but the last thing I want to see is parties in International Nations.

-Nibu

[Robespierre - P.R. of Debro]

"about the lack of nations on the forum, I don't think trying to set up parties is going to be likely or possible. "
--------->"As I said before, in time the region shall grow and become more active."


"The other thing about parties is, i've seen them destroy regions. One party leaves to make a new region."
----->Then it's a general axiom, isn't it? Parties-> destroyed regions.Move it to the jokes board,plz.

" even on the US level of things "
----> this NOT the US, indeed.

"but the last thing I want to see is parties in International Nations. "
----> Ok, i know you made a forum, doubled our size, and invented the automobile, but really, who cares what's your vision?! It's a community.
Thanks for your efforts, but u don't need to remind us daily. And you haven't got the right of veto.

[Alida & Syren]

I also agree with Neo Nibu- what he has said about parties is ture- and we dont want that to happen to this region!

[Neo Nibu]

Listen, I'm speaking from experience, I kno this region isn't going to be created Exactly how i'd like it, but parties kill regions, it's a simple fact. Look at other regions. We should act a individauls in a community not groups in a community. We should vote on the person not the party, look at the US, tons of people simple vote for their party knowing little of the person. Other than the harm, I see little need. It's not like their are going to be issues in which we see 2 sides to.

And me making a forum and doubling our size makes people care "what's my vision". Tell me your not more happy with what i've done than in a region of 20 something with inactive founder and fairly inactive delegate with no forum.

Once they left my region, the one they made was basicly the same as the one they left just with less people and a few different leaders. It would hav been easyer for all if the parties were never made in the first place. It causes un need conflict.

-Nibu

[Robespierre - P.R. of Debro]

Ok.
For you, it's a fact.Probably, there are other people who share your statement.
For me, it's just an opinion. Maybe, there are others.....
And in this argument doesn't has two sides?

So, how about a voting..?

Yes, master,with a dictator on my neck, I'm a lot happier.

[Robespierre - P.R. of Debro]

And this argument doesn't has two sides?
surry

[Neo Nibu]

Yes their are 2 sides, but it's not like you can create parties for these issues. Your Coin group, I believe if this idea comes into play is what party you would like to belong to, but it's based on liberal ideas, but with the regional government their isn't a liberal/conservtive side. I mean, the partys be what? Pro-term limites and anti-term limite? You tell me what you think these parties could stand for.

Btw, you don't need to post the same thing twice....

[Robespierre - P.R. of Debro]

Just to clear things:
Forget about "US-terminology" about parties.
Classic liberalism means fighting for elemental freedom(like free speech, general voting, equality between races, etc)
Libertarianism, the "reborn" of a classic one dictates that the market will do everything, in short. The state, government must be as little as can. State not supposed to finance a large social institute-system for example(and I haven't wrote about neoliberalism,ect)

COIN is a communist association, should I write about communism?

Every party can/must think about their goals, values,ect.
The parties will answer the question.That's why we should form them.

[Neo Nibu]

You kno what, w/e, we will just have it chosen by the people in a vote. I kno where your coming from, you hav the same opintion as the other person in my other region did. I agreed with him at the time, I wish I put a stop to it when I could but I didn't thus the region died.

In a day or two I'll make a poll.

-Nibu